Creating Silvopastures with Black Locust - silvopasture2024-03-29T08:08:36Zhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/creating-silvopastures-with-black-locust?xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSave the date everyone for "G…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2017-03-03:6457695:Comment:157132017-03-03T01:20:53.250ZBrett Chedzoyhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>Save the date everyone for "Growing Black Locust as a Timber Cash Crop in the Northeast" -</p>
<p><i>A special one day conference to explore the methods and potential for cultivating Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) profitably and successfully</i></p>
<p>Friday, October 20<sup>th</sup>, 2017 at the Big Flats PMC, Big Flats, NY (~10:00 – 4:30)</p>
<p>Details coming soon on the events page of the forum</p>
<p>Save the date everyone for "Growing Black Locust as a Timber Cash Crop in the Northeast" -</p>
<p><i>A special one day conference to explore the methods and potential for cultivating Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) profitably and successfully</i></p>
<p>Friday, October 20<sup>th</sup>, 2017 at the Big Flats PMC, Big Flats, NY (~10:00 – 4:30)</p>
<p>Details coming soon on the events page of the forum</p> Hi all!I recently wrote an ar…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2017-03-02:6457695:Comment:156132017-03-02T15:44:00.114ZHarry Greenehttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/HarryGreene
<p>Hi all!<br/><br/>I recently wrote an article about Angus Glen Farm, Brett's silvopasture operation. The text focuses on the potential of black locust and its financial viability. <br/><br/>Linked here:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.propagatenews.com/farms/2017/1/18/grass-fed-beef-and-black-locust-30-years-of-silvopasture" target="_blank">https://www.propagatenews.com/farms/2017/1/18/grass-fed-beef-and-black-locust-30-years-of-silvopasture</a></p>
<p>Hi all!<br/><br/>I recently wrote an article about Angus Glen Farm, Brett's silvopasture operation. The text focuses on the potential of black locust and its financial viability. <br/><br/>Linked here:</p>
<p><a href="https://www.propagatenews.com/farms/2017/1/18/grass-fed-beef-and-black-locust-30-years-of-silvopasture" target="_blank">https://www.propagatenews.com/farms/2017/1/18/grass-fed-beef-and-black-locust-30-years-of-silvopasture</a></p> G'day Brett (and others):Than…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2016-10-26:6457695:Comment:146162016-10-26T02:02:58.035ZAdam MacLeanhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/AdamMacLean
<p>G'day Brett (and others):<br></br>Thank you for hosting this excellent discussion! Can you recommend where I might source superior planting materials for establishing a silvopasture? Do you know of any seed sources from improved cultivars, apart from the seed stands in Hungary? Is there any path to importing the improved Hungarian seed? Can clones be propagated effectively via tissue culture? <br></br><br></br>So many questions - just trying to figure out a strategy to secure the planting material…</p>
<p>G'day Brett (and others):<br/>Thank you for hosting this excellent discussion! Can you recommend where I might source superior planting materials for establishing a silvopasture? Do you know of any seed sources from improved cultivars, apart from the seed stands in Hungary? Is there any path to importing the improved Hungarian seed? Can clones be propagated effectively via tissue culture? <br/><br/>So many questions - just trying to figure out a strategy to secure the planting material for a silvopasture startup.<br/><br/>Thanks!<br/>Adam</p> A recent email conversation p…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2016-04-18:6457695:Comment:132012016-04-18T16:38:36.196ZBrett Chedzoyhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>A recent email conversation pasted below from a retired extension friend. Some good information on clonal propagation...</p>
<p></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Several years back a few of us started collecting and propagating selected strains of black locust starting with the Steiner group from the USDA Big Flats Plant Materials Center with…</span></p>
<p>A recent email conversation pasted below from a retired extension friend. Some good information on clonal propagation...</p>
<p></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Several years back a few of us started collecting and propagating selected strains of black locust starting with the Steiner group from the USDA Big Flats Plant Materials Center with the help of Martin and Shawnna. Peter Smallidge, Cornell Extension Forester also was able to procure seed from a Hungarian black locust orchard...the trees in the orchard had been selected for form, vigor and tolerance to less than ideal growing conditions...the result of 2 selection cycles. Martin/Shawnna still have some of that seed; contact them if you would like to make good use of a small amount of it. Akiva has the best planting of all the collected material.</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Spring crept up quickly and it is time to take root cuttings for those who would like to try clonal propagation, the only way to be sure you know what you are getting. Follow out roots from the flares at the base of locust trunks. Carefully pull the soil away from the roots; you are looking for roots that are roughly 1/2-inch in diameter. Use pruning shears to cut as long a section of root as you wish. Cut the end towards the trunk with a flush cut; the root end with an angled cut. Wrap the cut sections of root in wet burlap or equivalent. Ultimately you will plant a root cutting that is about 4 to 6-inches in length; trunk side up...we have been planting flush with the soil layer in a well-drained potting mix. Fungus gnats can be a big problem in greenhouse situations; don't over water...this promotes fungus gnat development. Fungus gnats should not be a problem in outdoor settings because of natural predators.</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Collect some of the soil near the roots to mix in the planting pots/area to foster nitrogen-fixing bacterial inoculation of the new seedlings. Not sure if this works, best idea at present...input from the group about this appreciated.</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">I ran across several papers online though I didn't bookmark that discussed experiments with rhizosphere organisms: bacteria of several species that formed the symbiotic nitrogen-fixing associations and mycorrhizal associations. Bottom line was that the authors concluded that these rhizobial associations had a significant affect on the growth and vigor of the trees they were associated with. So given that, how valuable is collection of soil near superior trees to the propagation of future locust groves? I wish I knew more about tree genetics and rhizosphere organism influence on black locust growth and vigor.</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">Projects with black locust: Identify superior clones based on form, vigor, resistance to locust borer/lack of damage...propagate them and plant in orchards for cross pollination and eventual seed collection, future selection, etc.; experiment with mixtures with other hardwoods to enhance locust growth and protect against unforeseen pests (in the excellent publication "U.S. Department of Agriculture, Farmers' Bulletin No. 1628 Growing Black Locust Trees ((available online or used thru Amazon)) they suggest mixtures with sugar maple, white ash, red oak and black walnut. Sugar maple since it leafs out early should be a good choice to help keep invasives at bay; black walnut mixes should probably include either sugar maple or red oak or other hardwood species that shade the ground better than locust/walnut???).</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';">When I've visited different black locust groves I've noticed differences in the form of the trees, how well they heal where limbs once were, trunk flares and depth of bark furrows. In the wood you find some that is straight grained and solid, and other pieces with curvy grain and significant cracks. I'm guessing that some of these defects (deep furrows are one to avoid) can be avoided through superior tree selection, good site selection and preparation, rhizosphere inoculation?, use of mixtures?, etc. Tom Brown, Locust Lumber Company in Newfield, NY has observed less locust borer damage when the locust trunks were covered (shaded, lower temperature) by vines; we think what he is seeing are Virginia creeper vines.</span></p>
<p style="background: white; margin: 0in 0in 0pt;"><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman';"> </span></p>
<p><span style="color: black; font-family: 'Helvetica','sans-serif'; font-size: 9.5pt; mso-fareast-font-family: 'Times New Roman'; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">Anyway there's a bit on black locust for those who are interested in this native, fast growing, very rot resistant and strong hardwood species. Please add to the above with your own observations and experience.</span></p> Copied below is a recent exch…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2015-03-06:6457695:Comment:115612015-03-06T18:00:24.839ZBrett Chedzoyhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>Copied below is a recent exchange with Prof. John Fike at Virginia Tech. It points out another important consideration when selecting tree and shrub species to plant in silvopastures: toxicity</p>
<p>Brett,<br></br><br></br>I'm seeing some interested in black locust-based silvopastures and I have been<br></br>suggesting producers look at BL. However, I recently ran across a "Plants that are Poisonous to Livestock<br></br>Video Series" on the…</p>
<p>Copied below is a recent exchange with Prof. John Fike at Virginia Tech. It points out another important consideration when selecting tree and shrub species to plant in silvopastures: toxicity</p>
<p>Brett,<br/><br/>I'm seeing some interested in black locust-based silvopastures and I have been<br/>suggesting producers look at BL. However, I recently ran across a "Plants that are Poisonous to Livestock<br/>Video Series" on the <a href="http://www.georgiaforages.com/">http://www.georgiaforages.com/</a><br/>website - the youtube link is <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJJcaqsZl0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJJcaqsZl0</a><br/>- and I'm wondering if you've seen any problems with this. I had never heard of this as an issue. - John<br/><br/><br/></p>
<p>Hi John,</p>
<p>I always caution audiences not to ignore the <i>potential</i> plant toxicity issues that are reported in literature and anecdotally – but not to live in fear of them either. I think the situations are relatively rare, and that there are usually other predisposing factors involved (not least of which are poor animal husbandry and grazing management). Many of the issues can be avoided by not forcing or incentivizing animals to each too much of something with potentially toxic compounds. An example would be to abruptly turn livestock into lush locust suckers with little other browse and forage available. First, they’re going to crave and gorge on the locust foliage because it’s something novel and very palatable. But the other compounding factor is that they don’t have adequate access to other food sources to dilute, bind and balance the condensed tannins in the locust. </p>
<p>If you watch how most livestock graze, they’ll often head right over to nibble on the browse and tall weeds (most of which are on the poisonous plants list for our area) when turned into a fresh paddock. But after a few minutes of sampling the appetizers, they turn their attention back to the main course (the pasture). There’s something in those plants that they like or that their little pea brains tell them that they need. But once they’ve had enough, they seem to know to switch to eating more traditional stuff.</p>
<p>I can send you dozens of pictures of our animals browsing lush locust foliage. No issues as of yet. Not to say there couldn’t be some in the future.</p>
<p>One word of caution related to this is to consider IPM issues for creating relatively pure black locust silvopastures. Locust leaf miner is starting to show up even here in central NY – a pest that we used to think couldn’t make it north of I-80. Locust borer can also be quite destructive in young plantings (especially if there’s a lot of golden rod – the alternate food source for the miners). I would recommend that folks try to plant a mixtures of species.</p>
<p> </p> Thanks for the photos, the…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2014-11-12:6457695:Comment:109972014-11-12T18:57:38.461Zscott oosterhofhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/scottoosterhof
<ol>
<li>Thanks for the photos, the photo of the temporary fenced area (silvo pasture on the cheap) was what I was thinking of doing, but with four rows of trees. This will then be the edge of my paddock that I attach the temporary fence too. Then once they are tall enough take down the fence and put up a single fence down the middle lane of the four rows. This then would provide shade on each side of the paddock. Watcha think? My only concerns would be getting straight growing black…</li>
</ol>
<ol>
<li>Thanks for the photos, the photo of the temporary fenced area (silvo pasture on the cheap) was what I was thinking of doing, but with four rows of trees. This will then be the edge of my paddock that I attach the temporary fence too. Then once they are tall enough take down the fence and put up a single fence down the middle lane of the four rows. This then would provide shade on each side of the paddock. Watcha think? My only concerns would be getting straight growing black locusts. I know the ones around here are very crocked. How would I get straight growing seed stock? How long does it take to get black locust to grow up to 10 feet. Also this will be in warm season pasture and in the fall I want to no till annual rye in the open pasture how concerned would you be with tire punctures? </li>
</ol>
<p>Thanks for all your great articles,</p>
<p>Scott</p>
<p> <br/> <br/> <cite>Brett Chedzoy said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/creating-silvopastures-with-black-locust#6457695Comment10225"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Some photos below of different experiments around our farm on growing black locust. The first is of a 4.5 acre mixed black locust/black walnut plantation that we established in 1988. Not much site prep or care was done, plus there was a gypsy moth outbreak, so the locust did better than the walnut - but there are still nice walnuts mixed throughout. Unfortunately, many show signs of Nectria canker, and the larger native walnuts nearby are also suffering from Anthracnose. Teachable moment: diversify planting because we don't know what the next serious pest or disease will be.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094759?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094759?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p>This ~ 25 year old plantation has been thinned three times over the past 8 years, removing about 300 posts per acre (all of which were used here on the farm). Using a stumpage value of $5/post, that's about $1500 per acre in net revenue. The plantation is in need of another thinning to maintain sunlight levels and tree growth, but I try not to cut locust posts until we're within a few months of using them - easier to drive staples in a green post and less likely to split when pounded.</p>
<p>A better picture below showing the diameters of some of the trees - some are approaching small sawtimber diameters. Note the smaller trees marked in blue - the next to be thinned.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094911?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094911?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p>Black Locust is relatively easy to direct-seed. Trick is to get the seed properly prepared with a hot water soak to soften the hard seed coat, then sow in late-May during "bad haying weather" (10 day forecast of warm, humid weather). Below is a picture of direct-seeded single rows of locust along our single-strand ht wire paddock subdivision fences. We strip spray in the fall, then use our 3-pt hitch tree planter to create a shallow furrow and sow the seed by hand. The young locust are fenced out on both sides (one side with the ht wire, the other with a temporary polytwine fence). Cattle can graze in a bit from both sides, but not quite reach the young locust. </p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094953?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094953?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p>This picture was taken in the fall, so there's a lot of aster and golden rod in this pasture (the symptoms of haying this field for many years, before finally turning it into pasture). Nonetheless, the young locust are alive and well (picture below) and should be well above the weeds by the end of this year. </p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094994?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507094994?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
<p>The plan for these single rows of locust is to let them get up to a safe browse-resistant height (10 feet?) and then remove the temp fence. The cattle will undoubtedly damage some of the trees, but with daily paddock shifts and roughly 10 weeks of rest and recovery between grazings (we have 75 permanent paddocks on the farm, and counting), the locust should gradually spread via root suckers and create more extensive silvopasture conditions. This is an experiment to create silvopastures on the cheap.</p>
<p>Some pictures below of older locust plantations on the farm that have been clearcut and are creeping outward across fences and into adjacent open pastures. The dead trees were locust that were too crooked to make fence posts, so they were girdled and left standing</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507107730?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507107730?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024" width="721"/></a></p>
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</div>
</blockquote> Brett, Can you please direct…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2014-06-05:6457695:Comment:104602014-06-05T03:43:29.602ZJim Medeiroshttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/JimMedeiros
<p>Brett, Can you please direct me to how I can watch the webinar as I was not able to attend it today.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Jim</p>
<p>Brett, Can you please direct me to how I can watch the webinar as I was not able to attend it today.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>Jim</p> The recommended treatment is…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2014-06-04:6457695:Comment:103862014-06-04T22:41:37.643ZBrett Chedzoyhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>The recommended treatment is a "hot water soak": Put seed in container, fill with hot tap water, and let stand ~ 24 hours (overnight is usually sufficient. If that doesn't work, there are additional suggestions at: <a href="https://sheffields.com/seed_genus_species_lot/Robinia/pseudoacacia">https://sheffields.com/seed_genus_species_lot/Robinia/pseudoacacia</a> </p>
<p>The recommended treatment is a "hot water soak": Put seed in container, fill with hot tap water, and let stand ~ 24 hours (overnight is usually sufficient. If that doesn't work, there are additional suggestions at: <a href="https://sheffields.com/seed_genus_species_lot/Robinia/pseudoacacia">https://sheffields.com/seed_genus_species_lot/Robinia/pseudoacacia</a> </p> Nice webinar today Brett.
I'v…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2014-06-04:6457695:Comment:103822014-06-04T17:30:33.380ZCJ Sloanehttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>Nice webinar today Brett.</p>
<p>I've been planting Black and Honey Locust this spring & I'm have much greater success with HL. I'm treating with hot water (about 190°) and planting the seeds that swell. Some are going in the ground & some in pots.</p>
<p>Any other tricks to get BL to germinate?</p>
<p>Nice webinar today Brett.</p>
<p>I've been planting Black and Honey Locust this spring & I'm have much greater success with HL. I'm treating with hot water (about 190°) and planting the seeds that swell. Some are going in the ground & some in pots.</p>
<p>Any other tricks to get BL to germinate?</p> Received the following email…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2014-05-07:6457695:Comment:102462014-05-07T17:29:39.161ZBrett Chedzoyhttp://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>Received the following email this morning: "<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">I remember hearing a<br></br>while back that if you girdle locust in mid-summer and let it stand for a year<br></br>(or two?) that they don't send up root suckers because they keep attempting to<br></br>send energy to their leaves from…</span></p>
<p>Received the following email this morning: "<span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">I remember hearing a<br/>while back that if you girdle locust in mid-summer and let it stand for a year<br/>(or two?) that they don't send up root suckers because they keep attempting to<br/>send energy to their leaves from their roots. I'm just wondering if you can<br/>confirm this? If it's not true, do you know any effective method at controlling<br/>the spread of suckers once black locust is cut (besides grazing, herbicide, or<br/>continuous cutting)? "</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;">I've heard over the years that the suckering response in locust varies by time of the year that the trees are cut, but have never really had a chance to compare it on our farm. I suspect that locust suckers some regardless of the time of the year that it's cut, and whether it's girdled or felled. The picture below shows a small plantation where we harvested the straighter trees for fence posts about 2 years ago, and girdled the remaining trees that were too crooked (note to self: use better quality genetics next time). Most of the sprouts are coppice, originating from the main trunk below the girdle. But some suckers stemming from the roots can also be seen in the picture. There would probably be more evidence of suckering, but the area was grazed repeatedly and the suckers took a beating.</span></p>
<p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman','serif'; font-size: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA;"><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507096002?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507096002?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024"/></a></span></p>
<p>The next picture was taken of suckers in an adjacent paddock. These suckers started to appear prior to harvesting the parent trees, and have survived the repeated grazings.</p>
<p><a href="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507096036?profile=original" target="_self"><img width="721" class="align-full" src="http://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/2507096036?profile=RESIZE_1024x1024"/></a></p>
<p>Unfortunately, I don't remember just when we cut and girdled the locust, but I think it was in the spring around leaf-out.</p>
<p>To answer the question above about other methods of controlling suckering (other than heavy grazing, mowing or poisoning), the only other thing I could think of that <em>MIGHT</em> work is to try to smother the site with a tall, aggressive cover crop like sorghum sudan grass or millet. But the success of that approach would depend largely on the ability to get a good stand of the cover crop established (good seed/soil contact).</p>
<p> </p>
<p></p>
<p></p>