Forage/Fodder from trees - silvopasture2024-03-28T21:32:21Zhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A3921&feed=yes&xn_auth=noDarren Bender-Beauregard sa…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-05:6457695:Comment:62322012-09-05T12:38:59.663ZThomas Wilsonhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/ThomasWilson
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Darren Bender-Beauregard said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A6331&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment6331"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thomas, I'd not waste your time with that--they are very distant members of the same plant family (partly why HL doesn't fix much N and BLocust does), and from what I know about grafting trees, you need to use similar or…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Darren Bender-Beauregard said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A6331&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment6331"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Thomas, I'd not waste your time with that--they are very distant members of the same plant family (partly why HL doesn't fix much N and BLocust does), and from what I know about grafting trees, you need to use similar or same-species to get a compatible graft. </p>
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<div><div class="xg_user_generated"><blockquote><p>All this said however, many stranger things that were not supposed to work have been done, so the left-brained part of me says "Go for it!" </p>
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<p>Darren,</p>
<p>It might make for an interesting and fun experiment. Or a giant waste of time. I have a nice grove of Black Locust, about 20-30 years old. I cut some the last two winters, haven't seen any epicormic shoots as of yet. Or suckering. </p>
<p>I just have 4 seedling HL at present, so it will be a while before I can give grafting a shot.</p>
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</div> Opps. It was Honey locust I d…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-05:6457695:Comment:62312012-09-05T03:13:23.602ZCJ Sloanehttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>Opps. It was Honey locust I directed sowed. <br></br> <br></br> <cite>CJ Sloane said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=6457695%3ATopic%3A4124&page=1#6457695Comment6332"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I did direct sow and transplanted sprouted seeds this spring. I got a 90% germination rate sprouting inside but had very mixed success transplanting them. They were 4-8" tall when I transplanted.…</p>
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<p>Opps. It was Honey locust I directed sowed. <br/> <br/> <cite>CJ Sloane said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?xg_source=msg_com_forum&id=6457695%3ATopic%3A4124&page=1#6457695Comment6332"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I did direct sow and transplanted sprouted seeds this spring. I got a 90% germination rate sprouting inside but had very mixed success transplanting them. They were 4-8" tall when I transplanted. Some of the transplanting failures seemed do to location - either a bad spot or high animal traffic spot and they got stepped on. Overall, the direct sow was more successful.</p>
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</blockquote> Darren,
I planted most of th…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-05:6457695:Comment:62302012-09-05T02:53:20.808ZCJ Sloanehttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>Darren,</p>
<p>I planted most of the trees you're considering this spring. I planted mulberry, persimmon, and apples a few feet outside the pasture with the thought that at least half of the fruit will fall in the pasture for forage. Also some Autumn Olive and Siberian Pea shrub. I'll also plant willow along the fence line for forage.</p>
<p>Black locust and honey locust were planted 1 foot apart to hopefully form a living, edible fence. Same for hazelnut but further apart. …<br></br> <br></br></p>
<p>Darren,</p>
<p>I planted most of the trees you're considering this spring. I planted mulberry, persimmon, and apples a few feet outside the pasture with the thought that at least half of the fruit will fall in the pasture for forage. Also some Autumn Olive and Siberian Pea shrub. I'll also plant willow along the fence line for forage.</p>
<p>Black locust and honey locust were planted 1 foot apart to hopefully form a living, edible fence. Same for hazelnut but further apart. <br/> <br/> <cite>Darren Bender-Beauregard said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A6328&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment6127"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">I've been considering including: mulberry, hickory, pecan, white oaks, HL, black locust, persimmon, eastern hazelnut, seedling apples and pears. Mostly chosen for nutritious fodder for potential pigs or sheep in the future, but the light shade is primarily what I am after for the cattle. </div>
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</blockquote> I did direct sow and transpla…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-05:6457695:Comment:63322012-09-05T02:41:50.861ZCJ Sloanehttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>I did direct sow and transplanted sprouted seeds this spring. I got a 90% germination rate sprouting inside but had very mixed success transplanting them. They were 4-8" tall when I transplanted. Some of the transplanting failures seemed do to location - either a bad spot or high animal traffic spot and they got stepped on. Overall, the direct sow was more successful.</p>
<p>I did direct sow and transplanted sprouted seeds this spring. I got a 90% germination rate sprouting inside but had very mixed success transplanting them. They were 4-8" tall when I transplanted. Some of the transplanting failures seemed do to location - either a bad spot or high animal traffic spot and they got stepped on. Overall, the direct sow was more successful.</p> Brett, I am curious about det…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-04:6457695:Comment:61272012-09-04T14:04:48.548ZDarren Bender-Beauregardhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/DarrenBenderBeauregard
<p>Brett, I am curious about details on the downside to all other species than thornless HL, especially for black locust. I am in the beginning stages of planning some tree planting for our "wide and open" pastures that I want to provide some shade for. I am really wanting to include black locust for its N fixing and excellent fodder value, but know enough from experience to be wary of the thorny suckers that will inevitably creep up everywhere. Besides goats, severe mob grazing every year…</p>
<p>Brett, I am curious about details on the downside to all other species than thornless HL, especially for black locust. I am in the beginning stages of planning some tree planting for our "wide and open" pastures that I want to provide some shade for. I am really wanting to include black locust for its N fixing and excellent fodder value, but know enough from experience to be wary of the thorny suckers that will inevitably creep up everywhere. Besides goats, severe mob grazing every year or wasteful bushhogging, is there any other way to deal with these nasty dudes? I don't think the suckers would be a huge problem except for snagging the polywire every time I lay out paddocks. And that is probably problem enough!</p>
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<p>Anyway just wondering what you have discovered that could steer me clear of problem species for a practical silvopasture. I've been considering including: mulberry, hickory, pecan, white oaks, HL, black locust, persimmon, eastern hazelnut, seedling apples and pears. Mostly chosen for nutritious fodder for potential pigs or sheep in the future, but the light shade is primarily what I am after for the cattle. Also the nutrient pumping (from subsoil), and soil amending from annual leaf drop/root shedding. Considering the shrubby stuff to be an animal coppiced deal. Got nothing specific worked out yet, just dreaming for next spring.<br/> <br/> <cite>Brett Chedzoy said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A6328&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment4133"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Of all the possibilities, HL still seems to have the most going for it as a SP plantation tree - light foliage, edible mast, reasonably useful wood. I can see the downside to most every other species, though a mix would undoubtedly be best. I'll try direct-seeding a row of the Inermis HL this spring. -- Brett</p>
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</blockquote> Thomas, I'd not waste your ti…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-04:6457695:Comment:63312012-09-04T13:56:10.109ZDarren Bender-Beauregardhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/DarrenBenderBeauregard
<p>Thomas, I'd not waste your time with that--they are very distant members of the same plant family (partly why HL doesn't fix much N and BLocust does), and from what I know about grafting trees, you need to use similar or same-species to get a compatible graft. The HL guru I contacted Andrew Wilson is convinced that you even need similar genotypes within the species of HL for a strong, compatible graft union. He grafted lots of 'Millwood' HL onto seedling HL from his area in the southeast…</p>
<p>Thomas, I'd not waste your time with that--they are very distant members of the same plant family (partly why HL doesn't fix much N and BLocust does), and from what I know about grafting trees, you need to use similar or same-species to get a compatible graft. The HL guru I contacted Andrew Wilson is convinced that you even need similar genotypes within the species of HL for a strong, compatible graft union. He grafted lots of 'Millwood' HL onto seedling HL from his area in the southeast and is concerned about reduced productivity of Millwood due to poor graft union. He recommends to start seedlings of Millwood and then later graft them to Millwood to gain the thornless, productivity, and high sugar content that makes Millwood a good fodder cultivar.</p>
<p>All this said however, many stranger things that were not supposed to work have been done, so the left-brained part of me says "Go for it!" </p> I'm also interested in using…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-09-04:6457695:Comment:63282012-09-04T12:31:06.307ZThomas Wilsonhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/ThomasWilson
<p>I'm also interested in using Honey Locust for free food for livestock. I wonder if it's possible to graft honey locust onto black locust rootstock? </p>
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<p>Hopefully that would provide a best of both worlds scenario, nitrogen fixing capabilities of the black locust with the edible pods of the honey locust. </p>
<p>I'm also interested in using Honey Locust for free food for livestock. I wonder if it's possible to graft honey locust onto black locust rootstock? </p>
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<p>Hopefully that would provide a best of both worlds scenario, nitrogen fixing capabilities of the black locust with the edible pods of the honey locust. </p> Of all the possibilities, HL…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-03-06:6457695:Comment:41332012-03-06T12:26:06.040ZBrett Chedzoyhttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/BrettChedzoy
<p>Of all the possibilities, HL still seems to have the most going for it as a SP plantation tree - light foliage, edible mast, reasonably useful wood. I can see the downside to most every other species, though a mix would undoubtedly be best. I'll try direct-seeding a row of the Inermis HL this spring. -- Brett</p>
<p>Of all the possibilities, HL still seems to have the most going for it as a SP plantation tree - light foliage, edible mast, reasonably useful wood. I can see the downside to most every other species, though a mix would undoubtedly be best. I'll try direct-seeding a row of the Inermis HL this spring. -- Brett</p> I thought they did require st…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-03-02:6457695:Comment:39222012-03-02T13:17:24.851ZCJ Sloanehttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>I thought they did require stratification?</p>
<p>I believe the top branches are thornless because they don't need protection from being browsed.<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Darren Bender-Beauregard said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A3921&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment3921"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">HL is super easy to start--no need to stratify--just soak seeds in warm water for at…</div>
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<p>I thought they did require stratification?</p>
<p>I believe the top branches are thornless because they don't need protection from being browsed.<br/> <br/> <cite>Darren Bender-Beauregard said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A3921&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment3921"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">HL is super easy to start--no need to stratify--just soak seeds in warm water for at least 24 hrs, then put in flats, pots, or straight into the ground.</div>
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<div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I've also heard that for some reason the top branches of HL are generally thornless ...</p>
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</blockquote> I've decided to try a living…tag:silvopasture.ning.com,2012-03-02:6457695:Comment:42242012-03-02T13:14:28.637ZCJ Sloanehttps://silvopasture.ning.com/profile/CJSloane
<p>I've decided to try a living fence so maybe a thorny mess isn't so terrible? Black locust, honey locust, and willow for the cattle.</p>
<p>Hawthorn (a height issue) and maybe some of the others for the sheep and poultry.</p>
<p>I'm starting the honey locust from pods that were laying in a parking lot. My children thought I was going to get arrested for this!<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Brett Chedzoy said:…</cite></p>
<p>I've decided to try a living fence so maybe a thorny mess isn't so terrible? Black locust, honey locust, and willow for the cattle.</p>
<p>Hawthorn (a height issue) and maybe some of the others for the sheep and poultry.</p>
<p>I'm starting the honey locust from pods that were laying in a parking lot. My children thought I was going to get arrested for this!<br/> <br/> <cite>Brett Chedzoy said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://silvopasture.ning.com/forum/topics/forage-fodder-from-trees?commentId=6457695%3AComment%3A3921&xg_source=msg_com_forum#6457695Comment4219"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>But I've seen HL become a major invasive pest in Argentina, where it tends to form inpenetrable, thorny messes.</p>
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